Update to RFC 3777 to Clarify Nominating Committee Eligibility of IETF Leadership
draft-leiba-3777upd-eligibility-06

[Ballot comment]
I read http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/PendingUpdate

- OLD

Abstract

  RFC 3777 specifies that "sitting members" of the IAB and IESG "may
  not volunteer to serve on the nominating commitee".  Since that
  document was written the IAOC was formed, and that body is not
  covered by RFC 3777.

NEW
Abstract

  RFC 3777 specifies that "sitting members" of the IAB and IESG "may
  not volunteer to serve on the nominating commitee".  Since that
  document was written before the IAOC was formed, that body is not
  covered by RFC 3777.

Actually after reading it many times and reading the similar sentence in section 1, I finally understood: you're missing a coma for my non English native speaker background ;-)
So the new proposal.

NEW-NEW
Abstract

  RFC 3777 specifies that "sitting members" of the IAB and IESG "may
  not volunteer to serve on the nominating commitee".  Since that
  document was written, the IAOC was formed, and that body is not
  covered by RFC 3777.



-
Section 1
  those individuals can bring
  a broader perspective to the nominating committee and will help
  ensure that the people it selects are better prepared to fulfill the
  roles.

better than what?
Isn't better to say?
  those individuals can bring
  a broader perspective to the nominating committee and will help
  ensure that the people it selects are best prepared to fulfill the
  roles.

-
As I mentioned in a different thread, I would keep the ToC

[Ballot comment]
I am ballotting "Yes" on this document on the assumption that the
changes already suggested by Barry will be made.  Additionally,
the resolution of the word "leadership" in the paragraph of
Section 1 as suggested by Pete Resnick.

The following Comments are provided as observations to the authors
and neither require action nor further discussion.

---

Note that the document title still includes the sensitive word
"leadership".

---

The last sentence of the Abstract is a little vague.

  This
  document updates RFC 3777 and clarifies those situations.

s/and clarifies/to clarify/

s/those situations/the rules as they apply to all members of the IAB,
IESG, and IAOC./

---

Table of contents bugbear alert!

Spending one page of a 4 page document on the ToC, is (IMHO) a waste of
e-paper.

---

Section 1 para 2

  That said, it would be bad to eliminate people who have the
  experience necessary to understand the IETF process: those
  individuals can bring a broader perspective to the nominating
  committee and will help ensure that the people it selects are better
  prepared to fulfill the roles.

I completely agree with the sentiment of this paragraph, but I don't see
what relevance it has in this document. In fact, it seems that the point
of this document is to deliberately exclude some people with that
experience.

You could either delete this paragraph entirely (why not?) or
restructure the section so that this point is made before the points
about self-selection (i.e., the intention is to include as many with
experience as is possible, but to exclude those who are already
sitting).

---

Section 1 para 3

  This document
  updates RFC 3777 and clarifies those situations,

Comment as for Abstract.

---

Section 1

  In order to allow the largest reasonable list of potential nominating
  committee members, RFC 3777 does not exclude participation from
  working group chairs, IRTF research group chairs, members of
  directorates and special review teams, and members of other advisory
  bodies.

I think the reason for non-exclusion is that it is not felt that the
inclusion compromises the self-selection concerns.  To say "in order to
allow the largest reasonable..." questions the motives of the authors
and introduces consideration of "reasonable".

Why not delete the first clause?

---

Section 2

  may not volunteer to serve
  as voting members of the nominating committee

Do you mean "may not volunteer" or "may not be selected"?

That is (pedantically), putting your name forward is not something that
we can control.

[Ballot comment]

- I agree the the "leader" phrases in the intro are
better replaced. I guess Stewart's discuss relates to
the first paragraph and I support replacing that. However,
there is also a "lower levels" mention in the last para
of section that should go, I'd suggest:

NEW:

  In order to allow the largest reasonable list of potential
  nominating committee members, we do not want to exclude
  participation from working group chairs, IRTF research
  group chairs, members of directorates and special review
  teams, and members of other advisory bodies.

[Ballot discuss]
I have significant concerns the complex text in section one may lead to the misunderstanding that the IETF is a pyramid structured hierarchical organization.

I think that the text in the first section could be replaced by much simpler text, for example:

"RFC3777 specified that anyone currently serving in an office to which they were selected by the Nominations Committee, MUST NOT take part in the selection of candidates to offices which were subject to selection by the Nominations Committee. RFC3777 predates the creation of the IETF Administrative Oversight Committee (IAOC). The propose of this document is to update RFC3777 in the light of the creation of the IAOC".

[Ballot discuss]
I have significant concerns the complex text in section one may lead to the misunderstanding that the IETF is a pyramid structured hierarchical organization.

I think that the text in the first section could be replaced by much simpler text, for example:

"RFC3777 specified was anyone currently serving in an office to which they were selected by the Nominations Committee, MUST NOT take part in the selection of candidates to offices which were subject to selection by the Nominations Committee. RFC3777 predates the creation of the IETF Administrative Oversight Committee (IAOC). The propose of this document is to update RFC3777 in the light of the creation of the IAOC".

IANA has reviewed draft-leiba-3777upd-eligibility-04, which is currently
in Last Call, and has the following comments:

IANA understands that, upon approval of this document, there are no
IANA Actions that need completion.

The following Last Call announcement was sent out:

From: The IESG
To: IETF-Announce
Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Last Call:  (Update to RFC 3777 to Clarify Nominating Committee Eligibility of IETF Leadership) to Best Current Practice


The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider
the following document:
- 'Update to RFC 3777 to Clarify Nominating Committee Eligibility of IETF
  Leadership'
  as Best Current Practice

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2012-10-25. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

This document updates RFC 3777 by adding the IAOC to the list of
bodies whose sitting members are ineligible to serve on the Nominating
Committee (NomCom).  This document also clarifies that "sitting
members" includes those in ex-officio positions; however, liaisons
from other bodies are not excluded from serving on NomCom.

This document reflects the way that the IETF has been working.  By
making this update to RFC 3777, the documentation of the formal
process is catching up to the way that NomCom is actually operated.
This document actually updates a single sentence in RFC 3777.

Abstract

  RFC 3777 specifies that "sitting members" of the IAB and IESG "may
  not volunteer to serve on the nominating commitee".  Since that
  document was written the IAOC was formed, and that body is not
  covered by RFC 3777.  There is also uncertainty about whether ex-
  officio members and liaisons are included as "sitting members".  This
  document updates RFC 3777 and clarifies those situations.

The file can be obtained via
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-leiba-3777upd-eligibility/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-leiba-3777upd-eligibility/ballot/

No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.

Here's the document shepherd write-up for draft-leiba-3777upd-eligibility-04:

1. Summary

The document shepherd is S. Moonesamy.  The Responsible Area Director is Russ Housley.

This document updates RFC 3777 by adding the IAOC to the list of bodies whose sitting members are ineligible to vote on the NomCom.  It also clarifies that "sitting members" includes those in ex-officio positions and that liaisons from other bodies are not excluded.  The intended status of the document is BCP as it proposes a formal change to IETF process.

2. Review and Consensus

This document was discussed on the IETF discussion list and on the ietf-nomcom mailing list.  An ex-NomCom Chair, IAB, IESG and IAOC members, Jim Galvin and several long-standing IETF participants reviewed the previous iterations of the document.  There were comments about excluding individuals who are directly paid by the IETF, for example, the RFC Editor and the IETF Secretariat because of the oversight roles of the IAB, IESG and IAOC.  There were diverging opinions on the topics of conflict of interest and vested interest in controlling who is in the IETF leadership.

The general sense was to exclude as few people as necessary and the document reflects that.  The updated text follows the style used in RFC 3777 where each rule is a single sentence.

3. Intellectual Property

The author has confirmed conformance with BCP 78 and BCP 79.  There are no IPR disclosures on the document.

4. Other Points

None.