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RTP Payload for Timed Text Markup Language (TTML)
draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-06

Revision differences

Document history

Date Rev. By Action
2020-03-16
06 (System) RFC Editor state changed to AUTH48-DONE from AUTH48
2020-03-06
06 (System) RFC Editor state changed to AUTH48 from RFC-EDITOR
2020-01-31
06 (System) RFC Editor state changed to RFC-EDITOR from EDIT
2019-12-05
06 Tero Kivinen Closed request for Last Call review by SECDIR with state 'Overtaken by Events'
2019-12-05
06 Tero Kivinen Assignment of request for Last Call review by SECDIR to Stefan Santesson was marked no-response
2019-11-20
06 (System) RFC Editor state changed to EDIT
2019-11-20
06 (System) IESG state changed to RFC Ed Queue from Approved-announcement sent
2019-11-20
06 (System) Announcement was received by RFC Editor
2019-11-20
06 (System) IANA Action state changed to No IANA Actions from In Progress
2019-11-20
06 (System) IANA Action state changed to In Progress
2019-11-19
06 Amy Vezza IESG state changed to Approved-announcement sent from Approved-announcement to be sent
2019-11-19
06 Amy Vezza IESG has approved the document
2019-11-19
06 Amy Vezza Closed "Approve" ballot
2019-11-19
06 Amy Vezza Ballot approval text was generated
2019-11-19
06 Barry Leiba IESG state changed to Approved-announcement to be sent from IESG Evaluation::AD Followup
2019-11-19
06 (System) Sub state has been changed to AD Followup from Revised ID Needed
2019-11-19
06 James Sandford New version available: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-06.txt
2019-11-19
06 (System) New version approved
2019-11-19
06 (System) Request for posting confirmation emailed to previous authors: James Sandford
2019-11-19
06 James Sandford Uploaded new revision
2019-11-07
05 Adam Roach
[Ballot comment]
Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS and COMMENT points. I have preserved
them below for posterity.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the work everyone put into …
[Ballot comment]
Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS and COMMENT points. I have preserved
them below for posterity.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the work everyone put into this document. I think it's not quite
ready to publish, due to one ambiguity, one critical missing feature,
and the lack of guidance around fragmentation. I also have two comments that I
consider very important, although they don't quite rise to the level of blocking
publication.

As always, it's possible that my DISCUSS points are off-base, and I'd be
happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood anything here.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

§4.1:


>    When the document spans more
>    than one RTP packet, the entire document is obtained by
>    concatenating User Data Words from each contributing packet in
>    ascending order of Sequence Number.

This is underspecified, in that it doesn't make it clear whether it would be
valid to split a single UTF-8 or UTF-16 character between RTP packets, and it
is nearly certain that different implementations will make different
assumptions on this point, leading to interop failures. For example, the UTF-8
encoding of '¢' is 0xC2 0xA2. Would it be valid to place the "0xC2" in one
packet and the "0xA2" in a subsequent packet?

Without specifying this, it is quite likely that some implementations will
use, e.g., UTF-8 strings to accumulate the contents of RTP packets; and most
such libraries will emit errors or exhibit unexpected behavior if units of
less than a character are added at any time.  (The same point holds for
splitting a UTF-16 byte across packets).

I don't think it much matters which choice you make (explicitly allowing
or explicitly forbidding splitting characters between packets), but it
does need to be explicit. I have a slight personal preference for requiring
that characters cannot be split (both for ease of implementation on the
receiving end and to more smoothly handle missing data due to extended packet
loss), but leave it to the authors and working group to decide.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unlike other definitions to convey non-loss-resilient data on RTP streams, this
document had no defined mechanism to deal with packet loss. This makes it
unusable on the public Internet, where packet loss is an inevitable feature
of the network. The existing text-in-RTP specifications define procedures to
deal with such loss (see, e.g., RFC 4103 section 4 and RFC 4396 section 5).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

This format is rather unique in that it, alone among all other RTP text
formats, is designed to send monolithic documents that may stretch into the
multiple kilobyte range.  While fragmentation is mentioned as a possibility,
the document provides no implementation guidance about when to fragment
documents, and what sizes each fragment should assume. RFC 4396 section 4.4 is
an example of the kind of information I would expect to see in a document like
this, with emphasis on the fact that TTML documents are going to frequently
exceed the PTMU for a typical network connection.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

§1:

>  TTML (Timed Text Markup Language)[TTML2] is a media type for
>  describing timed text such as closed captions (also known as
>  subtitles) in television workflows or broadcasts as XML.

Although superficially similar, there are important distinctions between
subtitles (intended to help a hearing audience exclusively with spoken dialog,
typically because the audio is in a different language or otherwise difficult to
understand) and closed captions (intended to aid deaf or hard-of-hearing
viewers by providing a direct, word-for-word transcription of dialog as well
as descriptions of all other audio present). Calling one "also known as" the
other is incorrect.

I suggest rephrasing as:

  TTML (Timed Text Markup Language)[TTML2] is a media type for
  describing timed text such as closed captions and subtitles
  in television workflows or broadcasts as XML.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

§4.2.1.1:

>  The TTML document instance MUST use the "media" value of the
>  "ttp:timeBase" parameter attribute on the root element.

This statement makes an assumption that the
"http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#parameter" namespace MUST be mapped to the "ttp"
prefix, which is both bad form and probably not what is intended. I suggest
rephrasing as:

  The TTML document instance MUST include a "timeBase" element from
  the "http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#parameter" namespace containing
  the value "media".
2019-11-07
05 Adam Roach [Ballot Position Update] Position for Adam Roach has been changed to Yes from Discuss
2019-10-29
05 Barry Leiba Waiting for a final update from the Magnus discussion after Adam checks his issues.
2019-10-29
05 Barry Leiba IESG state changed to IESG Evaluation::Revised I-D Needed from IESG Evaluation::AD Followup
2019-10-29
05 Magnus Westerlund [Ballot Position Update] Position for Magnus Westerlund has been changed to No Objection from Discuss
2019-10-29
05 James Sandford New version available: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-05.txt
2019-10-29
05 (System) New version approved
2019-10-29
05 (System) Request for posting confirmation emailed to previous authors: James Sandford
2019-10-29
05 James Sandford Uploaded new revision
2019-10-29
04 Magnus Westerlund
[Ballot discuss]
Thanks for the discussion and addressing most of the issues completely. I leave these in so that I know that the remaining text …
[Ballot discuss]
Thanks for the discussion and addressing most of the issues completely. I leave these in so that I know that the remaining text issues to be addressed are associated with these.


3. Section 7.1:

It may be appropriate to use the same Synchronization
  Source and Clock Rate as the related media.

Using the same SSRC as another media stream in the same RTP Session is no-no. If you meant to use multiple RTP sessions and associate them using the same SSRC in diffiernt, yes it works but is not recommended. This points to the need for a clearer discussion of how to achieve linkage and the reasons for why same RTP timestamp may be useful or not.

4. Fragmentation:
I think the fragmentation of an TTML document across multiple RTP payloads are a bit insufficiently described. I have the impression that it is hard to do something more clever than to fill each RTP payload to MTU limtiation, and send them out insequence. However, I think a firm requirement to apply RTP sequence number for a single document in consecutive numbers. Also the re-assebly process appear to have to parts for detecting what belongs together, same timestamp and last packet of document should have marker bit set.
As a receiver can loose the last packet in the previous document, still know that it has received everything for the following document. However, if the losses are multiple, inspection of the re-assemblied document will be necessary to determine if the correct beginning is present. I have the impression that a proper section discussing these matter of fragmentation and re-assembly are necessary for good interoperability and function.
2019-10-29
04 Magnus Westerlund Ballot comment and discuss text updated for Magnus Westerlund
2019-10-25
04 (System) Sub state has been changed to AD Followup from Revised ID Needed
2019-10-25
04 (System) IANA Review state changed to Version Changed - Review Needed from IANA OK - No Actions Needed
2019-10-25
04 James Sandford New version available: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-04.txt
2019-10-25
04 (System) New version approved
2019-10-25
04 (System) Request for posting confirmation emailed to previous authors: James Sandford
2019-10-25
04 James Sandford Uploaded new revision
2019-10-21
03 Magnus Westerlund
[Ballot discuss]
James and WG,

I do have a couple of issues I want to have your feedback on if they should be corrected or …
[Ballot discuss]
James and WG,

I do have a couple of issues I want to have your feedback on if they should be corrected or not before proceeding to publication. Note they are for discussion and in cases where things have been discussed and there is consensus please reference that so that I can take that into consideration when we resolve these.

1. Section 4.1:
Timestamp:
The RTP Timestamp encodes the time of the text in the packet.

As timed text is a media that has duration, from a start time to an end time, and the RTP timestmap is a single time tick in the chose clock resolution the above text is not clear. I would think the start time of the document would be the most useful to include? 

I think the text in 4.2.1.2 combined with the above attempts to imply that the RTP timestamp will be the 0 reference for the time-expression?

I think this needs a bit more clarification. Not having detailed studied TTML2/1 I might be missing important details. But some more information how the document timebase:media time line connects to the RTP timestamp appears necessary.

2. A Discuss Discuss: As Timed Text is directly associated with one or more video and audio streams and requires synchronization with these other media streams to function correct. This leads to two questions.

First of all is application/ttml+xml actually the right top-level media type? If using SDP that forces one unless one have BUNDLE to use a different RTP session. Many media types having this type of properties of being associated with some other media types have registered media types in all relevant top-level media types.

Secondly, this payload format may need some references to mechanisms in RTP and signalling that has the purpose of associating media streams? I also assume that we have the interesting cases with localization that different languages have different time lines for the text and how long it shows as there are different tranditions in different countries and languages for how one makes subtitles.

This may also point to the need for discussing the pick one out of n mechanism that a manifest may need.

3. Section 7.1:

It may be appropriate to use the same Synchronization
  Source and Clock Rate as the related media.

Using the same SSRC as another media stream in the same RTP Session is no-no. If you meant to use multiple RTP sessions and associate them using the same SSRC in diffiernt, yes it works but is not recommended. This points to the need for a clearer discussion of how to achieve linkage and the reasons for why same RTP timestamp may be useful or not.

4. Fragmentation:
I think the fragmentation of an TTML document across multiple RTP payloads are a bit insufficiently described. I have the impression that it is hard to do something more clever than to fill each RTP payload to MTU limtiation, and send them out insequence. However, I think a firm requirement to apply RTP sequence number for a single document in consecutive numbers. Also the re-assebly process appear to have to parts for detecting what belongs together, same timestamp and last packet of document should have marker bit set.
As a receiver can loose the last packet in the previous document, still know that it has received everything for the following document. However, if the losses are multiple, inspection of the re-assemblied document will be necessary to determine if the correct beginning is present. I have the impression that a proper section discussing these matter of fragmentation and re-assembly are necessary for good interoperability and function.

5. Lack of definition of parameter types in the media type when using SDP Offer/answer.

As the application/ttml media type do contain parameters (charset and profile) there is a need to define what SDP O/A interpretations they need to have. See section 3.4.2.1 of RFC 8088 for discussion of these different types.
2019-10-21
03 Magnus Westerlund Ballot discuss text updated for Magnus Westerlund
2019-10-18
03 Gunter Van de Velde Assignment of request for Last Call review by OPSDIR to Fred Baker was marked no-response
2019-10-18
03 Gunter Van de Velde Assignment of request for Last Call review by OPSDIR to Fred Baker was marked no-response
2019-10-17
03 Cindy Morgan IESG state changed to IESG Evaluation::Revised I-D Needed from IESG Evaluation
2019-10-17
03 Martin Vigoureux [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Martin Vigoureux
2019-10-16
03 Benjamin Kaduk
[Ballot comment]
Thanks for this clear and well-written document!

Section 2

  The term "word" refers to byte aligned or 32-bit aligned words of
  …
[Ballot comment]
Thanks for this clear and well-written document!

Section 2

  The term "word" refers to byte aligned or 32-bit aligned words of
  data in a computing sense and not to refer to linguistic words that
  might appear in the transported text.

Either of byte-aligned and 4-byte-aligned, as opposed to aligned to one
of those and in multiples of the other in length?

Section 4

I find myself feeling like I would benefit from a brief discussion of
the relationship between documents and the RTP stream before getting
into the details of the payload format (e.g., "one document per
subtitle", "many documents per stream but each document contains some
minutes of data", or "totally up to the profile in use").  Even having
finished the I-D I'm still wondering: it's clear that we only have
a single TTLM stream in a given RTP stream, and a given RTP packet has
(part of) a TTML document in the epoch of the timestamp of the RTP
packet, and I can only have one document active at a time.  On the
flip side, different documents must belong to different epochs.  So it
seems that I could either make large documents stuck on a single
timestamp, or small documents with (relatively) rapidly advancing
timestamps, regardless of how I need to actually split the TTML content
into packets in order to meet MTU requirements (and possibly packet
pacing ones).  Given that this is RTP and we're used to ignoring things
with old timestamps, I mostly expect the latter to be more common, but
would appreciate some guidance in the document [sic].  This seems to
roughly be Adam's third Discuss point.

Section 4.2.1.2

  If the TTML document payload is assessed to be invalid then it MUST
  be discarded.  When processing a valid document, the following
  requirements apply.

Does this imply that I have to wait for the entire document to arrive
before I start processing it?

  Each TTML document becomes active at the epoch E.  E MUST be set to

nit: I suggest s/the/its/, since there is not a global distinguished
epoch.

Most of the security considerations I can think of apply more to the
TTML format itself rather than the RTP payload.  I might include a short
note that the text contents are meant to be interpreted by a human, and
content from untrusted sources should be viewed with appropriate levels
of skepticism.
2019-10-16
03 Benjamin Kaduk [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Benjamin Kaduk
2019-10-16
03 Alvaro Retana [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Alvaro Retana
2019-10-16
03 Ignas Bagdonas [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Ignas Bagdonas
2019-10-16
03 Alexey Melnikov [Ballot comment]
I agree with Adam’s DISCUSS.
2019-10-16
03 Alexey Melnikov [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Alexey Melnikov
2019-10-15
03 Adam Roach
[Ballot discuss]
Thanks for the work everyone put into this document. I think it's not quite
ready to publish, due to one ambiguity, one critical …
[Ballot discuss]
Thanks for the work everyone put into this document. I think it's not quite
ready to publish, due to one ambiguity, one critical missing feature,
and the lack of guidance around fragmentation. I also have two comments that I
consider very important, although they don't quite rise to the level of blocking
publication.

As always, it's possible that my DISCUSS points are off-base, and I'd be
happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood anything here.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

§4.1:


>    When the document spans more
>    than one RTP packet, the entire document is obtained by
>    concatenating User Data Words from each contributing packet in
>    ascending order of Sequence Number.

This is underspecified, in that it doesn't make it clear whether it would be
valid to split a single UTF-8 or UTF-16 character between RTP packets, and it
is nearly certain that different implementations will make different
assumptions on this point, leading to interop failures. For example, the UTF-8
encoding of '¢' is 0xC2 0xA2. Would it be valid to place the "0xC2" in one
packet and the "0xA2" in a subsequent packet?

Without specifying this, it is quite likely that some implementations will
use, e.g., UTF-8 strings to accumulate the contents of RTP packets; and most
such libraries will emit errors or exhibit unexpected behavior if units of
less than a character are added at any time.  (The same point holds for
splitting a UTF-16 byte across packets).

I don't think it much matters which choice you make (explicitly allowing
or explicitly forbidding splitting characters between packets), but it
does need to be explicit. I have a slight personal preference for requiring
that characters cannot be split (both for ease of implementation on the
receiving end and to more smoothly handle missing data due to extended packet
loss), but leave it to the authors and working group to decide.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unlike other definitions to convey non-loss-resilient data on RTP streams, this
document had no defined mechanism to deal with packet loss. This makes it
unusable on the public Internet, where packet loss is an inevitable feature
of the network. The existing text-in-RTP specifications define procedures to
deal with such loss (see, e.g., RFC 4103 section 4 and RFC 4396 section 5).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

This format is rather unique in that it, alone among all other RTP text
formats, is designed to send monolithic documents that may stretch into the
multiple kilobyte range.  While fragmentation is mentioned as a possibility,
the document provides no implementation guidance about when to fragment
documents, and what sizes each fragment should assume. RFC 4396 section 4.4 is
an example of the kind of information I would expect to see in a document like
this, with emphasis on the fact that TTML documents are going to frequently
exceed the PTMU for a typical network connection.
2019-10-15
03 Adam Roach
[Ballot comment]
§1:

>  TTML (Timed Text Markup Language)[TTML2] is a media type for
>  describing timed text such as closed captions (also known as …
[Ballot comment]
§1:

>  TTML (Timed Text Markup Language)[TTML2] is a media type for
>  describing timed text such as closed captions (also known as
>  subtitles) in television workflows or broadcasts as XML.

Although superficially similar, there are important distinctions between
subtitles (intended to help a hearing audience exclusively with spoken dialog,
typically because the audio is in a different language or otherwise difficult to
understand) and closed captions (intended to aid deaf or hard-of-hearing
viewers by providing a direct, word-for-word transcription of dialog as well
as descriptions of all other audio present). Calling one "also known as" the
other is incorrect.

I suggest rephrasing as:

  TTML (Timed Text Markup Language)[TTML2] is a media type for
  describing timed text such as closed captions and subtitles
  in television workflows or broadcasts as XML.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

§4.2.1.1:

>  The TTML document instance MUST use the "media" value of the
>  "ttp:timeBase" parameter attribute on the root element.

This statement makes an assumption that the
"http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#parameter" namespace MUST be mapped to the "ttp"
prefix, which is both bad form and probably not what is intended. I suggest
rephrasing as:

  The TTML document instance MUST include a "timeBase" element from
  the "http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#parameter" namespace containing
  the value "media".
2019-10-15
03 Adam Roach [Ballot Position Update] New position, Discuss, has been recorded for Adam Roach
2019-10-15
03 Deborah Brungard [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Deborah Brungard
2019-10-15
03 Magnus Westerlund
[Ballot discuss]
James and WG,

I do have a couple of issues I want to have your feedback on if they should be corrected or …
[Ballot discuss]
James and WG,

I do have a couple of issues I want to have your feedback on if they should be corrected or not before proceeding to publication. Note they are for discussion and in cases where things have been discussed and there is consensus please reference that so that I can take that into consideration when we resolve these.

1. Section 4.1:
Timestamp:
The RTP Timestamp encodes the time of the text in the packet.

As timed text is a media that has duration, from a start time to an end time, and the RTP timestmap is a single time tick in the chose clock resolution the above text is not clear. I would think the start time of the document would be the most useful to include? 

I think the text in 4.2.1.2 combined with the above attempts to imply that the RTP timestamp will be the 0 reference for the time-expression?

I think this needs a bit more clarification. Not having detailed studied TTML2/1 I might be missing important details. But some more information how the document timebase:media time line connects to the RTP timestamp appears necessary.

2. A Discuss Discuss: As Timed Text is directly associated with one or more video and audio streams and requires synchronization with these other media streams to function correct. This leads to two questions.

First of all is application/ttml+xml actually the right top-level media type? If using SDP that forces one unless one have BUNDLE to use a different RTP session. Many media types having this type of properties of being associated with some other media types have registered media types in all relevant top-level media types.

Secondly, this payload format may need some references to mechanisms in RTP and signalling that has the purpose of associating media streams? I also assume that we have the interesting cases with localization that different languages have different time lines for the text and how long it shows as there are different tranditions in different countries and languages for how one makes subtitles.

This may also point to the need for discussing the pick one out of n mechanism that a manifest may need.

3. Section 7.1:

It may be appropriate to use the same Synchronization
  Source and Clock Rate as the related media.

Using the same SSRC as another media stream in the same RTP Session is no-no. If you meant to use multiple RTP sessions and associate them using the same SSRC in diffiernt, yes it works but is not recommended. This points to the need for a clearer discussion of how to achieve linkage and the reasons for why same RTP timestamp may be useful or not.

4. Fragmentation:
I think the fragmentation of an TTML document across multiple RTP payloads are a bit insufficiently described. I have the impression that it is hard to do something more clever than to fill each RTP payload to MTU limtiation, and send them out insequence. However, I think a firm requirement to apply RTP sequence number for a single document in consecutive numbers. Also the re-assebly process appear to have to parts for detecting what belongs together, same timestamp and last packet of document should have marker bit set.
As a receiver can loose the last packet in the previous document, still know that it has received everything for the following document. However, if the losses are multiple, inspection of the re-assemblied document will be necessary to determine if the correct beginning is present. I have the impression that a proper section discussing these matter of fragmentation and re-assembly are necessary for good interoperability and function.
2019-10-15
03 Magnus Westerlund
[Ballot comment]
A. Section 6.
To my understanding the TTML document is basically not possible to encode better. A poor generator can create unnecessary verbose …
[Ballot comment]
A. Section 6.
To my understanding the TTML document is basically not possible to encode better. A poor generator can create unnecessary verbose XML which could be shorter, but there are no possibility here to trade-off media quality for lower bit-rate. I think that should be made more explicit in Section 6.

B. Section 7.
Wouldn't using 90kHz be the better default? 1kHz is the minimal from RTCP report that will work decently. However, if the timed text is primarily going to be synchronized with video 90k do ensure that (sub-)frame precise timing is possible to express. I don't see any need raster line specific for time text so the SMPTE 27 MHz clock is not needed. And using non default for subtitling radio etc appears fine.

C. Repair operations and relation to documents. Based on basic properties of TTML documents, I do think the repair operations should be highly targeting single documents as there is likely seconds between documents, while the fragments of a document will be sent in a rather short interval. That recommendation would be good to include.
2019-10-15
03 Magnus Westerlund [Ballot Position Update] New position, Discuss, has been recorded for Magnus Westerlund
2019-10-15
03 Warren Kumari [Ballot comment]
Thank you for writing this -- I found it interesting and useful.
2019-10-15
03 Warren Kumari [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Warren Kumari
2019-10-15
03 Roman Danyliw [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Roman Danyliw
2019-10-14
03 Suresh Krishnan [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Suresh Krishnan
2019-10-14
03 Alissa Cooper
[Ballot comment]
I would recommend starting some new top-level sections within what is currently Section 4.2, rather than going down to six levels of subsections …
[Ballot comment]
I would recommend starting some new top-level sections within what is currently Section 4.2, rather than going down to six levels of subsections (4.2.1.2.1.2), which can get confusing when other people are citing parts of this document.

Please respond to the Gen-ART review.
2019-10-14
03 Alissa Cooper Ballot comment text updated for Alissa Cooper
2019-10-14
03 Alissa Cooper
[Ballot comment]
I would recommend starting some new top-level sections within what is currently Section 4.2, rather than going down to six levels of subsections …
[Ballot comment]
I would recommend starting some new top-level sections within what is currently Section 4.2, rather than going down to six levels of subsections (4.2.1.2.1.2), which can get confusing when other people are citing parts of this document.
2019-10-14
03 Alissa Cooper [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Alissa Cooper
2019-10-11
03 Russ Housley Request for Telechat review by GENART Completed: Ready with Nits. Reviewer: Russ Housley. Sent review to list.
2019-10-11
03 Mirja Kühlewind
[Ballot comment]
Small comment on Sec 4.1. - Maybe:
OLD "These bits are reserved for future use and MUST be set to 0x0."
NEW "These …
[Ballot comment]
Small comment on Sec 4.1. - Maybe:
OLD "These bits are reserved for future use and MUST be set to 0x0."
NEW "These bits are reserved for future use and MUST be set to 0x0 and ignored at receive."
2019-10-11
03 Mirja Kühlewind [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Mirja Kühlewind
2019-10-11
03 Éric Vyncke [Ballot comment]
Thank you for the work done in this document.

The unusual wording of 'RTP carriage' in section 4.2.1 is interesting.

-éric
2019-10-11
03 Éric Vyncke [Ballot Position Update] New position, No Objection, has been recorded for Éric Vyncke
2019-10-10
03 Jean Mahoney Request for Telechat review by GENART is assigned to Russ Housley
2019-10-10
03 Jean Mahoney Request for Telechat review by GENART is assigned to Russ Housley
2019-10-10
03 Barry Leiba IESG state changed to IESG Evaluation from Waiting for AD Go-Ahead
2019-10-10
03 (System) IESG state changed to Waiting for AD Go-Ahead from In Last Call
2019-10-09
03 (System) IANA Review state changed to IANA OK - No Actions Needed from IANA - Review Needed
2019-10-09
03 Sabrina Tanamal
(Via drafts-lastcall@iana.org): IESG/Authors/WG Chairs:

The IANA Functions Operator has reviewed draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-02, which is currently in Last Call, and has the following comments:

We …
(Via drafts-lastcall@iana.org): IESG/Authors/WG Chairs:

The IANA Functions Operator has reviewed draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-02, which is currently in Last Call, and has the following comments:

We understand that this document doesn't require any registry actions.

While it's often helpful for a document's IANA Considerations section to remain in place upon publication even if there are no actions, if the authors strongly prefer to remove it, we do not object.

If this assessment is not accurate, please respond as soon as possible.

Thank you,

Sabrina Tanamal
Senior IANA Services Specialist
2019-10-09
03 Amy Vezza Placed on agenda for telechat - 2019-10-17
2019-10-09
03 Barry Leiba Ballot has been issued
2019-10-09
03 Barry Leiba [Ballot Position Update] New position, Yes, has been recorded for Barry Leiba
2019-10-09
03 Barry Leiba Created "Approve" ballot
2019-10-09
03 Barry Leiba Ballot writeup was changed
2019-10-08
03 James Sandford New version available: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-03.txt
2019-10-08
03 (System) New version approved
2019-10-08
03 (System) Request for posting confirmation emailed to previous authors: James Sandford
2019-10-08
03 James Sandford Uploaded new revision
2019-10-03
02 Tero Kivinen Request for Last Call review by SECDIR is assigned to Stefan Santesson
2019-10-03
02 Tero Kivinen Request for Last Call review by SECDIR is assigned to Stefan Santesson
2019-10-01
02 Gunter Van de Velde Request for Last Call review by OPSDIR is assigned to Fred Baker
2019-10-01
02 Gunter Van de Velde Request for Last Call review by OPSDIR is assigned to Fred Baker
2019-10-01
02 Gunter Van de Velde Request for Last Call review by OPSDIR is assigned to Fred Baker
2019-10-01
02 Gunter Van de Velde Request for Last Call review by OPSDIR is assigned to Fred Baker
2019-09-27
02 Russ Housley Request for Last Call review by GENART Completed: Ready with Issues. Reviewer: Russ Housley. Sent review to list.
2019-09-26
02 Jean Mahoney Request for Last Call review by GENART is assigned to Russ Housley
2019-09-26
02 Jean Mahoney Request for Last Call review by GENART is assigned to Russ Housley
2019-09-26
02 Amy Vezza IANA Review state changed to IANA - Review Needed
2019-09-26
02 Amy Vezza
The following Last Call announcement was sent out (ends 2019-10-10):

From: The IESG
To: IETF-Announce
CC: avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, barryleiba@gmail.com, avt@ietf.org, roni.even@huawei.com, Roni …
The following Last Call announcement was sent out (ends 2019-10-10):

From: The IESG
To: IETF-Announce
CC: avtcore-chairs@ietf.org, barryleiba@gmail.com, avt@ietf.org, roni.even@huawei.com, Roni Even , draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml@ietf.org
Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org
Sender:
Subject: Last Call:  (RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text) to Proposed Standard


The IESG has received a request from the Audio/Video Transport Core
Maintenance WG (avtcore) to consider the following document: - 'RTP Payload
for TTML Timed Text'
  as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2019-10-10. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of
the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


  This memo describes a Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) payload
  format for TTML, an XML based timed text format for live and file
  based workflows from W3C.  This payload format is specifically
  targeted at live workflows using TTML.




The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml/ballot/


No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.




2019-09-26
02 Amy Vezza IESG state changed to In Last Call from Last Call Requested
2019-09-26
02 Amy Vezza Last call announcement was changed
2019-09-25
02 Barry Leiba Last call was requested
2019-09-25
02 Barry Leiba Last call announcement was generated
2019-09-25
02 Barry Leiba Ballot approval text was generated
2019-09-25
02 Barry Leiba Ballot writeup was generated
2019-09-25
02 Barry Leiba IESG state changed to Last Call Requested from AD Evaluation
2019-09-24
02 Barry Leiba IESG state changed to AD Evaluation from Publication Requested
2019-09-24
02 Roni Even

(1) What type of RFC is being requested (BCP, Proposed Standard, Internet Standard, Informational, Experimental, or Historic)? Why is this the proper type of RFC? …

(1) What type of RFC is being requested (BCP, Proposed Standard, Internet Standard, Informational, Experimental, or Historic)? Why is this the proper type of RFC? Is this type of RFC indicated in the title page header? 
This document will be a standard track RFC. This document defines new RTP payload formats for the TTML, an XML based timed text format for live and file based workflows from W3C
The type is indicated on the title page

(2) The IESG approval announcement includes a Document Announcement Write-Up. Please provide such a Document Announcement Write-Up. Recent examples can be found in the "Action" announcements for approved documents. The approval announcement contains the following sections: 
Technical Summary:
TTML (Timed Text Markup Language is a media type for  describing timed text such as closed captions (also known as  subtitles) in television workflows or broadcasts as XML.  This document specifies how TTML should be mapped into an RTP stream in live workflows including, but not restricted to, those described in the television broadcast oriented EBU-TT Part 3 specification.  This document does not define a media type for TTML but makes use of the existing application/ttml+xml media type.


Working Group Summary:
The content of the document was discussed with the W3C Timed Text Working Group (TTWG), and on the mailing list. The open issues were addressed and there are no open issues, there was consensus on the content of the document.
Document Quality:
Are there existing implementations of the protocol? Have a significant number of vendors indicated their plan to implement the specification? Are there any reviewers that merit special mention as having done a thorough review, e.g., one that resulted in important changes or a conclusion that the document had no substantive issues? If there was a MIB Doctor, Media Type or other expert review, what was its course (briefly)? In the case of a Media Type review, on what date was the request posted?
This draft was discussed by the W3C Timed Text Working Group (TTWG) on 2019-02-07 and the document was updated based on their comments.  There is no media type registration.
Personnel:
Who is the Document Shepherd? Who is the Responsible Area Director? 
Roni Even is the Document Shepherd.
The responsible AD is Barry Leiba.

(3) Briefly describe the review of this document that was performed by the Document Shepherd. If this version of the document is not ready for publication, please explain why the document is being forwarded to the IESG. 
The document shepherd reviewed the document in previous and current versions and found it ready for publication.
(4) Does the document Shepherd have any concerns about the depth or breadth of the reviews that have been performed? 
The document was reviewed by the W3C TTWG and Nigel Megitt (Chair, W3C TTWG) confirmed that tey do not have any further comments.
(5) Do portions of the document need review from a particular or from broader perspective, e.g., security, operational complexity, AAA, DNS, DHCP, XML, or internationalization? If so, describe the review that took place. 
None
(6) Describe any specific concerns or issues that the Document Shepherd has with this document that the Responsible Area Director and/or the IESG should be aware of? For example, perhaps he or she is uncomfortable with certain parts of the document, or has concerns whether there really is a need for it. In any event, if the WG has discussed those issues and has indicated that it still wishes to advance the document, detail those concerns here. 
None
(7) Has each author confirmed that any and all appropriate IPR disclosures required for full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79 have already been filed. If not, explain why?
Yes. The authors confirmed.
(8) Has an IPR disclosure been filed that references this document? If so, summarize any WG discussion and conclusion regarding the IPR disclosures. 
No IPR
(9) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with it? 
This is an RTP payload and usually the review is done by the interested parties. We had good feedback from W3C TTWG and the WG chair reviewed the document both on content and structure.
(10) Has anyone threatened an appeal or otherwise indicated extreme discontent? If so, please summarise the areas of conflict in separate email messages to the Responsible Area Director. (It should be in a separate email because this questionnaire is publicly available.) 
No
(11) Identify any ID nits the Document Shepherd has found in this document. (See http://www.ietf.org/tools/idnits/ and the Internet-Drafts Checklist). Boilerplate checks are not enough; this check needs to be thorough. 
No issue
(12) Describe how the document meets any required formal review criteria, such as the MIB Doctor, media type, and URI type reviews. 
No Need
(13) Have all references within this document been identified as either normative or informative? 
Yes
(14) Are there normative references to documents that are not ready for advancement or are otherwise in an unclear state? If such normative references exist, what is the plan for their completion? 
(15) Are there downward normative references references (see RFC 3967)? If so, list these downward references to support the Area Director in the Last Call procedure. 
None, there are normative references to non IETF documents.
(16) Will publication of this document change the status of any existing RFCs? Are those RFCs listed on the title page header, listed in the abstract, and discussed in the introduction? If the RFCs are not listed in the Abstract and Introduction, explain why, and point to the part of the document where the relationship of this document to the other RFCs is discussed. If this information is not in the document, explain why the WG considers it unnecessary. 
No
(17) Describe the Document Shepherd's review of the IANA considerations section, especially with regard to its consistency with the body of the document. Confirm that all protocol extensions that the document makes are associated with the appropriate reservations in IANA registries. Confirm that any referenced IANA registries have been clearly identified. Confirm that newly created IANA registries include a detailed specification of the initial contents for the registry, that allocations procedures for future registrations are defined, and a reasonable name for the new registry has been suggested (see RFC 8126). 
No IANA action
(18) List any new IANA registries that require Expert Review for future allocations. Provide any public guidance that the IESG would find useful in selecting the IANA Experts for these new registries. 
None
(19) Describe reviews and automated checks performed by the Document Shepherd to validate sections of the document written in a formal language, such as XML code, BNF rules, MIB definitions, etc.
The document has XML code but they are examples of the payload which ant not of RTP itself

2019-09-24
02 Roni Even Responsible AD changed to Barry Leiba
2019-09-24
02 Roni Even IETF WG state changed to Submitted to IESG for Publication from WG Consensus: Waiting for Write-Up
2019-09-24
02 Roni Even IESG state changed to Publication Requested from I-D Exists
2019-09-24
02 Roni Even IESG process started in state Publication Requested
2019-09-24
02 Roni Even Changed consensus to Yes from Unknown
2019-09-24
02 Roni Even Intended Status changed to Proposed Standard from None
2019-09-24
02 Roni Even

(1) What type of RFC is being requested (BCP, Proposed Standard, Internet Standard, Informational, Experimental, or Historic)? Why is this the proper type of RFC? …

(1) What type of RFC is being requested (BCP, Proposed Standard, Internet Standard, Informational, Experimental, or Historic)? Why is this the proper type of RFC? Is this type of RFC indicated in the title page header? 
This document will be a standard track RFC. This document defines new RTP payload formats for the TTML, an XML based timed text format for live and file based workflows from W3C
The type is indicated on the title page

(2) The IESG approval announcement includes a Document Announcement Write-Up. Please provide such a Document Announcement Write-Up. Recent examples can be found in the "Action" announcements for approved documents. The approval announcement contains the following sections: 
Technical Summary:
TTML (Timed Text Markup Language is a media type for  describing timed text such as closed captions (also known as  subtitles) in television workflows or broadcasts as XML.  This document specifies how TTML should be mapped into an RTP stream in live workflows including, but not restricted to, those described in the television broadcast oriented EBU-TT Part 3 specification.  This document does not define a media type for TTML but makes use of the existing application/ttml+xml media type.


Working Group Summary:
The content of the document was discussed with the W3C Timed Text Working Group (TTWG), and on the mailing list. The open issues were addressed and there are no open issues, there was consensus on the content of the document.
Document Quality:
Are there existing implementations of the protocol? Have a significant number of vendors indicated their plan to implement the specification? Are there any reviewers that merit special mention as having done a thorough review, e.g., one that resulted in important changes or a conclusion that the document had no substantive issues? If there was a MIB Doctor, Media Type or other expert review, what was its course (briefly)? In the case of a Media Type review, on what date was the request posted?
This draft was discussed by the W3C Timed Text Working Group (TTWG) on 2019-02-07 and the document was updated based on their comments.  There is no media type registration.
Personnel:
Who is the Document Shepherd? Who is the Responsible Area Director? 
Roni Even is the Document Shepherd.
The responsible AD is Barry Leiba.

(3) Briefly describe the review of this document that was performed by the Document Shepherd. If this version of the document is not ready for publication, please explain why the document is being forwarded to the IESG. 
The document shepherd reviewed the document in previous and current versions and found it ready for publication.
(4) Does the document Shepherd have any concerns about the depth or breadth of the reviews that have been performed? 
The document was reviewed by the W3C TTWG and Nigel Megitt (Chair, W3C TTWG) confirmed that tey do not have any further comments.
(5) Do portions of the document need review from a particular or from broader perspective, e.g., security, operational complexity, AAA, DNS, DHCP, XML, or internationalization? If so, describe the review that took place. 
None
(6) Describe any specific concerns or issues that the Document Shepherd has with this document that the Responsible Area Director and/or the IESG should be aware of? For example, perhaps he or she is uncomfortable with certain parts of the document, or has concerns whether there really is a need for it. In any event, if the WG has discussed those issues and has indicated that it still wishes to advance the document, detail those concerns here. 
None
(7) Has each author confirmed that any and all appropriate IPR disclosures required for full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79 have already been filed. If not, explain why?
Yes. The authors confirmed.
(8) Has an IPR disclosure been filed that references this document? If so, summarize any WG discussion and conclusion regarding the IPR disclosures. 
No IPR
(9) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with it? 
This is an RTP payload and usually the review is done by the interested parties. We had good feedback from W3C TTWG and the WG chair reviewed the document both on content and structure.
(10) Has anyone threatened an appeal or otherwise indicated extreme discontent? If so, please summarise the areas of conflict in separate email messages to the Responsible Area Director. (It should be in a separate email because this questionnaire is publicly available.) 
No
(11) Identify any ID nits the Document Shepherd has found in this document. (See http://www.ietf.org/tools/idnits/ and the Internet-Drafts Checklist). Boilerplate checks are not enough; this check needs to be thorough. 
No issue
(12) Describe how the document meets any required formal review criteria, such as the MIB Doctor, media type, and URI type reviews. 
No Need
(13) Have all references within this document been identified as either normative or informative? 
Yes
(14) Are there normative references to documents that are not ready for advancement or are otherwise in an unclear state? If such normative references exist, what is the plan for their completion? 
(15) Are there downward normative references references (see RFC 3967)? If so, list these downward references to support the Area Director in the Last Call procedure. 
None, there are normative references to non IETF documents.
(16) Will publication of this document change the status of any existing RFCs? Are those RFCs listed on the title page header, listed in the abstract, and discussed in the introduction? If the RFCs are not listed in the Abstract and Introduction, explain why, and point to the part of the document where the relationship of this document to the other RFCs is discussed. If this information is not in the document, explain why the WG considers it unnecessary. 
No
(17) Describe the Document Shepherd's review of the IANA considerations section, especially with regard to its consistency with the body of the document. Confirm that all protocol extensions that the document makes are associated with the appropriate reservations in IANA registries. Confirm that any referenced IANA registries have been clearly identified. Confirm that newly created IANA registries include a detailed specification of the initial contents for the registry, that allocations procedures for future registrations are defined, and a reasonable name for the new registry has been suggested (see RFC 8126). 
No IANA action
(18) List any new IANA registries that require Expert Review for future allocations. Provide any public guidance that the IESG would find useful in selecting the IANA Experts for these new registries. 
None
(19) Describe reviews and automated checks performed by the Document Shepherd to validate sections of the document written in a formal language, such as XML code, BNF rules, MIB definitions, etc.
The document has XML code but they are examples of the payload which ant not of RTP itself

2019-09-23
02 Roni Even IETF WG state changed to WG Consensus: Waiting for Write-Up from WG Document
2019-09-20
02 Cindy Morgan Notification list changed to Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com> from Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com>
2019-09-20
02 Cindy Morgan Changed group to Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance (AVTCORE) from Audio/Video Transport Payloads (PAYLOAD)
2019-06-11
02 James Sandford New version available: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-02.txt
2019-06-11
02 (System) New version approved
2019-06-11
02 (System) Request for posting confirmation emailed to previous authors: James Sandford
2019-06-11
02 James Sandford Uploaded new revision
2019-05-27
01 Roni Even Notification list changed to Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com>
2019-05-27
01 Roni Even Document shepherd changed to Roni Even
2019-04-25
01 James Sandford New version available: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-01.txt
2019-04-25
01 (System) New version approved
2019-04-25
01 (System) Request for posting confirmation emailed to previous authors: James Sandford
2019-04-25
01 James Sandford Uploaded new revision
2019-03-05
00 Roni Even This document now replaces draft-sandford-payload-rtp-ttml instead of None
2019-03-05
00 James Sandford New version available: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-00.txt
2019-03-05
00 (System) WG -00 approved
2019-03-05
00 James Sandford Set submitter to "James Sandford ", replaces to draft-sandford-payload-rtp-ttml and sent approval email to group chairs: payload-chairs@ietf.org
2019-03-05
00 James Sandford Uploaded new revision