Minutes interim-2020-netconf-01: Mon 07:00
minutes-interim-2020-netconf-01-202004060700-00

Agenda for the NETCONF 107 WG Session
-------------------------------------

Session:
   Monday April 6th

   PDT: 07:00-09:00
   EDT: 10:00-12:00
   UTC: 14:00-16:00
   CST: 22:00-00:00

WG Chairs:
   Mahesh Jethanandani (mjethanandani at gmail dot com)
   Kent Watsen (kent plus ietf at watsen dot net)

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Introduction

  Chairs (10 minutes, 00:00)
  Session Intro & WG Status

Chartered items:

   Kent Watsen (20 min, 00:10)
   Status and Issues on Client-Server Suite of Drafts
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-crypto-types-14
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-trust-anchors-09
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-16
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tcp-client-server-04
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-18
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-18
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-http-client-server-02
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-18
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-18

Michael Richardson (in Jabber) writes: RSA for SSH might the same math as for
TLS, but the format of the keys is not, and the security properties can be
different, particularly when it comes to what is in the certificate.  They are
effectively different things.  There are properties that might be in common,
and maybe that's worth describing, but I'm not sure what the win would be.

Rich + Rob + Jason (and Juergen via email after the call) prefer Options 2 and
3 over Option 1

Action: chair to poll WG for selection preference after meeting.

   Mahesh Jethanandani (10 min, 00:30)
   An HTTPS-based Transport for Configured Subscriptions
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif-02

Rob Wilton: regarding mandatory encoding requirements, perhaps "no
interoperability", let the market decide.  Publisher uses out-of-band mechanism
(e.g, via implementation or configuration) to choose which encoding to use.
Mahesh: There are some subtleties about this, let's take it to the list.

START SIDE CONVERSATION:

Eric Voit.: "subscription-started" is a mandatory message in a configured
subscription.  It provides the configuration specifics as part of the initial
subscription setup.   This should be acknowledged with an 'ok' prior to event
records being sent.   This is a way to stop DDoS attacks, as a receiver MUST
accept the subscription before records are sent.  (see 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8639#section-2.7.1 )

Authors: "subscription-started" is a notification.  Notification are one-way
and hence do not have acknowledgments.  There is no way for the receiver to
acknowledge the publisher's notification.  Hence this notification cannot help
with encoding selection.    Related to prior on-list discussion (Jan 27/28),
hardcoding RFC5277 style for this notification doesn't change to fact that the
notification cannot be acknowledged.

END SIDE CONVERSATION

Qin: could the capability exchange go the opposite direction (i.e., per Qin's
other draft). Mahesh: Take it to the list.

Thomas: why mandate any specific (XML, JSON) encodings, could CBOR be used?
Mahesh: currently the draft supports XML/JSON with CBOR as possibly learned.

Eric and Rob were in queue for comments, but said that they would take them to
the list.

Non-Chartered items:

   Jason Sterne (10 min, 00:40)
   YANG Module Version impact on the NETCONF/RESTCONF protocol
   (no draft)

   Kent: (As chair) the protocol work needs to be done  in NETCONF (Mahesh and
   Rob agrees) Action: authors to factor out NETCONF WG parts into NETCOF I-Ds
   [note from Jason S] I think the decision during the discussion was to keep
   it in 1 draft for now (in the NETCONF WG), and decide later (i.e., at time
   of adoption) as the draft progresses how/if to split it

   Qin Wu (10 min, 00:50)
   Self-explanation Data Node Tag Capability
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tao-netconf-notif-node-tag-capabilities-01

Action: chairs to discuss possible creation of a design team.

   Peng Liu (10 min, 01:00)
   Bulk Subscription to YANG Event Notification
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-bulk-subscribed-notifications-01

Kent: great to see so much interest in telemetry data work...to what extent are
these ideas prototyped? Qin: some ideas have been prototyped, e.g.,telemetry
data tagging, adaptive subscription, bulk subscription and telemetry data
export, in plan

Kent: it would be good for the WG to get a feel for how much of all this work
(not just this presentation) is being prototyped vs just an idea... Action:
chairs to discuss possible creation of a design team.

   Peng Liu (10 min, 01:10)
   Telemetry Data Export Capability
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tao-netconf-data-export-capabilities-00

Mahesh: isn't the transport+security+ bundling already set by selecting the
transport method. E.g. The HTTPS notification draft already decides the
security and the bundling of messages used in sending the notification. So by
deciding HTTPS way to send notification, are you not already deciding the
security, bundling and compression methods? Peng: (response not clear)

Rob: should we look at all the capabilities for completeness?  e.g., the
"transport" selection should be a "leaf-list" Peng: yes

Kent: to Rob, are you suggesting the notification-capabiities draft should be
put on hold? Rob: no, that should proceed

Kent: wondering if there should be a DT and/or an overarching presentation for
the collection of subscription-related presentations. The collection of
presentations currently looks like disjoint work. Action: chairs to discuss
possible creation of a design team.

   Qin Wu (10 min, 01:20)
   Adaptive Subscription to YANG Notification
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-netconf-adaptive-subscription-00

Kent: is there a way to vary the rate based on percentage variation, as opposed
to absolute value? Qin: yes

   Pierre Francois (10 min, 01:30)
   Subscription to Multiple Stream Originators
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-multi-stream-originators-00

Thomas Graf presenting.

Mahesh: how is this related to previous draft with same name?
Thomas: will go and look.

Mahesh: How does this draft address the closed ecosystem issue raised during
IETF 104 and 105 by Tim Carey and Kent? Also how does one discover if there are
linecards in the system or not? Is all this in scope or out of scope for this
draft. Thomas: It is in scope.

   Pierre Francois (10 min, 01:40)
   UDP based Publication Channel for Streaming Telemetry
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-unyte-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00

Mahesh: please try to answer the questions that were raised in previous IETFs
(104, 105) Peirre: okay.

   Benoit Claise (10 min, 01:50)
   Node Capabilities For Closed Loop Automation
   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-claise-netconf-metadata-for-collection-00

(Munish Nayyar presenting)

Mahesh: It is great to see so much interest in node-tagging capability. Perhaps
there should a design team that can be formed to looking at this problem
holistically. Action: chairs to discuss possible creation of a design team.

   Bluesheet

        41 in webex (at max)
        10 in jabber (all also in webex}

            Name                                 Affiliation
            ======================               ============================
        1.  Kent Watsen                          Watsen Networks
        2.  Mahesh Jethanandani                  Kloud Services
        3.  Qin Wu                               Huawei
        4.  Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson
        5.  Jan Lindblad                         Cisco
        6.  Susan Hares                          Huawei
        7.  Jason Sterne                         Nokia
        8.  Thomas Graf                          Swisscom
        9.  Warren Kumari                        Google
        10. Rob Wilton                           Cisco
        11. Pierre Francois                      INSA-Lyon
        12. Michael Richardson                   Sandelman Software Works
        13. Eric Voit                            Cisco
        14. Joe Clarke                           Cisco
        15. William Lupton                       Broadband Forum
        16. Charles Eckel                        Cisco
        17. Reshad Rahman                        Cisco
        18. Yuji Tochio                          Fujitsu
        19. Rich Salz                            Akamai
        20. Tim Carey                            Nokia
        21. Yoshifumi Atarashi                   Alaxala
        22. Dieter Beller,                       Nokia
        23. Michael Scharf                       Hochschule Esslingen -
        University of Applied Sciences 24. Gungying zheng                      
        Huawei 25. Gang Yan                             Huawei 26. Yunan Gu    
                                Huawei 27. Bo Wu                               
        Huawei 28. Maurice Angermann                    Siemens AG 29. Matthias
        Arnold                      Swisscom 30. Tianran Zhou                  
              Huawei 31. Munish Nayyar                        Cisco 32. Adithya
        Sesani                       Cisco 33. Éric Vyncke                     
            Cisco 34. Juergen Schoenwaelder                Jacobs University
        35. Andy Bierman.                        Yuma Works