Minutes interim-2020-mboned-01: Tue 09:00
minutes-interim-2020-mboned-01-202004210900-01

IETF 107/Virtual Interim
Tues, Apr 21, 2020
9-11AM PDT
Meeting held jointly with PIM WG (PIM went first)

Recording:
https://youtu.be/5NwkTuWGs-M?t=5231

Note taker: Olufemi Komolafe

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Notes take in etherpad at https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-107-pim

Text (from 4/27/20) pasted below for reference:

MBONED agenda:
Status of WG items

draft-ietf-mboned-ieee802-mcast-problems-11
Mike McBride: Got some good input from Linus Lussing

draft-ietf-mboned-dc-deploy-09
Mike McBride: Keen to have more feedback regarding dc-deploy-draft.  Happy to
work on Jake's feedbac or let draft go if that's the WG's concensus Lenny
Giuliano: if enough interest, authors to rev based on latest comments; if not
enough interest, draft can fade off intto the sunset Jake Holland: Draft of
interest and within scope but could be improved Warren Kumari: Can we recruit
some volunteers to review the draft. Volunteers => Greg Shepherd, Dino Farinacci

Chairs, 5 min

Multicast to the Browser: draft-ietf-mboned-ambi-00,
draft-ietf-mboned-cbacc-00, draft-ietf-mboned-dorms-00 Jake Holland, 30 min
Dino Farinacci: Use asymmetric keys?  But no good algorithms that are fast
enough Jake Holland: Performance of security suites prohibitive.  Probably
worthwhile writing up that approach for when fast enough security approaches
become available Dino Farinacci: Different mechanism to do authentication and
authorization since authorization can be done much quicker? Jake Holland:
Authentication is crucial Toerless Eckert: Isn't AMBI really necessary for only
DRM-encumbered receivers? Jake Holland: There are some other scenarios when
AMBI is needed Toerless Eckert: Broadcast DRM traffic well-resourced and
deployed.  Isn't that the answer to that threat model? Jake Holland: Diffcult
to check in code to browser relying on only DRM Greg Shepherd: Perhaps consider
taking to Nanog or other forums with  carriers

Jake Holland: Seeking carriers/content owners to particpate in POCs and trials

Multicast to the Grandma (MTTG) Update
Lenny Giuliano, 25 min
Greg Shepherd: "People don't hate multicast they hate PIM", i.e. the problem is
not network replication but rather the complexity designed to facilitate the
replication Lenny Giulano: "People don't hate PIM SSM they hate PIM ASM"
Toerless Eckert: PIM-SSM is simple enough for all broadcast. BIER is a great
simplification over PIM-SM and enables new "sender-control-applications".
Multicast via BGP is for operators that never learned a second language beside
BGP ;-) Jake Holland: PIM SSM easier to follow that MBGP VPN.  The BIER drafts
are interesting and solving per-hop scale issues and reducing operational
complexity is worthwhile. Toerless Eckert: Complementary to Jake Holland's
effort.  How does it interact with Verizon's presentation where the use of a
local agent is used to change multicast traffic to unicast so browsers are
unaltered Gyan Mishra: Rather than developing in-house from scratch, consider
other approaches (e.g. webRTC) but ultimately approach was to use Ramp product
Jake Holland: Key to be able to deploy multicast to the actually browser itself
Greg Sheperd: Requirement that source be multicast is not ideal  Easier to have
concept of multicast for distribution but  no reason why sources can unicast
traffic to the FHR Dino Farinacci: Does not really matter how data is sourced,
as long as multicast service model used for distribution.  Can be flexible,
depending on constraints of source applications. Also need to deal with NAT
traversal if source is smartphone which is harder for multicast source than
unicast Dino Farinacci: Need someone to write app to take video traffic from a
phone and send to the network, in either unicast or multicast Leonard Giulano:
Looking for potential open source apps